The Connected Customer Journey Starts with Behavioral Insights

Kailey Raymond: Back in the day, banks relied heavily on personal local relationships. Clients walked into physical branches.

They knew the people there. If you've ever seen it's a wonderful life. You know what I'm talking about today? The world is way bigger. Way flatter. And the personal interactions you have with businesses are shifting more and more online. In fact, according to Forbes, 76% of Americans use mobile apps for banking.

These days, with this transition, from the physical world to the digital, how do banks understand what their customers need? It's not exactly a low stake industry and personalization continues to be super important to build consumer trust. That's where you guessed it. Data comes in today on the show. I'm speaking with Erin Pryor, Executive Vice President of First Horizon. Wanna know how banks are maintaining that human to human connection. Stick around to find out.

Erin, thanks again for being here. Really appreciate you being on the podcast today. Good to see you again, love to kick off, to learn a little bit more about how you got to where you are today.

I know you've been at First Horizon for a little bit, but what's your career background story? 

Erin Pryor: I always laugh when I tell people this story, because honestly, if you would've asked me 10, 11, 12 years ago, if I would've worked in banking, I would've laughed and been like no way. I just didn't see myself in the financial services industry.

I started my career in publishing, really in editorial. My first couple of positions out of college were with the New York times and sports illustrated. And then I did PR for a quick stint with CBS. And then I got into magazines and I worked for a company that had, I played volleyball in college. And so they had a volleyball magazine, and surfing, and some other sports, which was really fun.

And then out of the blue, I was offered a position with a startup bank and the CEO and I met hadn't started yet. He was still officially getting the charter together. And we met and, and he asked my background and I had moved to New York. I told my parents outta college, I was either gonna go play volleyball professionally or I was going to live in New York City. They were like, oh, okay. And so I ended up getting an apartment in New York before my contract to go overseas and play volleyball came through and I told my parents, I was like, I'm selling my car. And I'm either going to run out of money and come home or I'm gonna stay in New York.

So Steven Gordon, who had started Opus Bank, he thought that that was pretty brave and had a similar story. He had been a Wall Street guy, an investment banker in New York. And so he offered one person or sometimes two, when he started new ventures who didn't know banking to come in and learn his way of banking.

And it was just such an interesting opportunity. So I decided to do it. So Opus was a startup bank based in California. I started before it was an actual entity and I was hired on to be the management trainee. And I learned the business. I rotated under all the lines of business. And then ultimately a few months in Steven hired a gentleman named Brad Davis who had been the Chief Marketing Officer at Washington Mutual. And Brad always says, make sure everybody knows.. “well, before it crashed.” So he was there, helped build it from 30 billion, Washington Mutual, from 30 billion to 300 and left in advance of what ultimately happened to them in the crash. And so he came on board and I rotated underneath him and it was lightning in a bottle.

He just has the best energy. He was so storied in his career. He'd been on the cover of Ad Age and others. And he offered me a position to work directly for him and together. I worked side by side with him building that brand for about six years, and then ultimately went onto a FinTech that sold to Goldman Sachs.

And then I went to USAA. I was fascinated by a company that had only been digital right. They were digital before digital was a thing. And so I was there doing the retail bank for a while and then ultimately landed here at First Horizon a little over a year and a half ago. So it's been exciting. It's not what I would have expected back in the day, but it's been really exciting.

Kailey Raymond: That's so interesting to hear. And one of the things that I think I'm interested in learning a little bit more about is starting in journalism. Careers are curvy. I love to hear about curvy careers, cuz I think that everybody kind of has like a little bit of that story in them. Is there anything that you learned in journalism that now you're using in banking and then also very curious to hear a little bit about startup bank versus now some of the  bigger retail experience, any kind of like comparisons that you see between those two different career experiences.

Erin Pryor: I really think you pull a little bit of everything in your background in, I believe being an athlete like a college athlete, I bring a lot of that forward. People ask me all the time. I think time management, you know, you got a little bit of that competitive spirit in there. There's just a lot of great things you learn as an athlete. 

From my journalism career, it is a skill knowing how to write. I had had a few leaders before tell me, you can tell that you know how to write. And I do think there's something to be said for that, whether it's crafting a really great email or putting together a presentation, but I think that's been really helpful just knowing how to tell the story and especially in marketing, when you're having to a lot of the time, educate and bring people with you on the journey, being able to articulate that has been beneficial in my career. 

And from a startup to a more stable institution. Not that the startups I worked for weren't they definitely were maybe a more tenured institution. That's also been interesting. I think there's a lot to bring forward. I love the entrepreneurial spirit. I love getting in and advocating for change and to think in new ways. And I think you can do that in a lot of the tenured institutions, if they are open to it. I think there's some frustrations there sometimes, but I don't think that's any different than anybody experiences regularly in large organizations.

I think that's one of things I carry with me the most is, you know, how are we doing thing? Is it the most efficient? Is it really where we need to be today? And if not, how do we get that entrepreneurial muscle and really flex it to lean into what's next?

Kailey Raymond: I think that one of the interesting things that I think is probably happening a lot in your industry and that I think probably takes a lot from the startup community is digital transformation. Banking right now is going through this massive shift in getting closer to the customer and ripping out legacy platforms. I'm curious to hear your take on a couple of the top trends that you're currently seeing in the banking industry. 

Erin Pryor: With banking, you've got so much data. We have more data on our customers and clients than any other industry because we have the behavioral data from how you spend your money, how you're saving your money, where you buying your homes, those types of things. And being able to really stitch together a profile to know the client better and to better serve them is gonna be critical. So the CDP with bringing together the zero first, second, third party data and creating those profiles to then feed through into your CRM systems and into the marketing engine, really, I think puts you ahead of the game. 

Data is what everybody wants and really what is making the world go round today, especially from a marketer standpoint. And I think the better we can get with our data. The stronger we're gonna be from an organization and not in the creepy way. If you use the data, right. You're really looking at how do you help the customer move forward and what are their life goals and how do you better lead them or encourage them to what's next, whether it's saving, whether it's buying a house, they're buying a house, it's getting them into the right loan, whatever it may be. Also, as you're looking at ROI from your marketing spend, there's just a lot of great things you can do when you put the data together.

Kailey Raymond: A hundred percent. You're speaking my language right now. I'm wondering what are some of the first use cases that you're excited to implement with your new CDP as you're starting to unify all of this data together? What does that look like? 

Erin Pryor: We had an opportunity to really mine our existing database to figure out where are the opportunities for our clients. And so we'd put together some journeys specifically in mortgage, private client, and we're also building some things on the commercial side. But I think with the first opportunity, the first use case is the mortgage journey. So how do we take what we've built right now? A lot of that is email. Utilize some of the CDP. Utilize the various channels to surround sound the email, and then be able to see all the touches to better personalize the experience when the clients drive in. So we'll actually know when you've come to the site and you've looked at something, then we can help serve it up. What is the right content to make a better overall experience for the client, regardless of the channel, it just helps with that omnichannel view.

Kailey Raymond: So you're saying that the customer is gonna touch all of these different points online, and then they're gonna actually come into a branch perhaps and interact with you and you'll have all of that information ready for that interaction so you have all of that context. Is that where we're headed? 

Erin Pryor: That's the long term. That's the long game. It's baby steps, right? So we got it implemented. We're working right now with some of the online touches that we have the capability. But ultimately yes. Whether you're in person in a branch or you are online on the website or any, wherever you are, is where we want to interact with you, so we're not forcing you into a channel. It really becomes channel of choice. And then we're able to articulate to you or to conversate with you in a more meaningful, real time way than maybe we have in the past. 

Kailey Raymond: That's great. As somebody kind of interested in entering the mortgage market myself relatively soon, I can say that it definitely helps to know that banks are really thinking about adding that context in. I wanna say I have had a poor experience with this. When I had a form fill at a bank. Won't name the bank, not First Horizon. And I basically raised my hand and I said, Hey, help me out. And I didn't get any information on that, but I got information on another thing. So I'm hearing you, and I'm saying like customer experience and all of those data points across all the different channels are super meaningful. How do you think that's gonna impact your entire customer experience journey at First Horizon? 

Erin Pryor: I think it's critical. I think if done cohesively, it can make a huge impact. And when I say cohesive, you've got to get the CRM. I really believe that the CRM is the crux, is really the center of the client experience. Because that's really showing you the interactions and not just you and me, the marketer, but also the banker also the call center. So being able to see how the customer, where the customer is interacting, and what they're looking to do, to be able to give them a truly well rounded experience and the data feeding into that is a critical piece.

Like I said, you're stitching together all of the touches to really feed that engine. You're partnering between the CRM, all the data, plus the boots on the ground. You have to be really aligned with your line of business and sales teams to really see it into fruition. We talk a lot about that in the marketing team, is we've gotta find the advocates within the organization that are willing to take the data that we're sending or the leads or whatever, it may be right. As a marketer, we can drive in anything. It's quality over quantity, right? And then are your sales teams and the client facing bankers? Are they willing to take those and push them forward? And how do we work together to ensure that that ecosystem is in place and functioning properly because if a ball is dropped somewhere, whether it's a web to lead form and the lead falls on the ground, or if you you're driving something in and the bankers have had a conversation with someone, and then you send them to your point, something that is completely irrelevant, it just looks very disjointed. So I think it's critical in the customer experience. It's hand in hand. 

Kailey Raymond: There's definitely a lot of places where things can go wrong in the customer experience journey. When you're trying to build something that's super connected. And to your point, like channel choice, you wanna make sure you're meeting people where they're at in real time with the context fully built in. So I'm curious, what's the process for you as you're starting to build these connected experiences for your customers? 

Erin Pryor: You have to have that service level blueprint first. You have to understand what is the baseline experience. And great brands are built internally. Customer experience is a huge part of the brand, right?

So if your baseline experience, your baseline, operational blueprint has breaks in it, then your client experience or customer experience is gonna be broken from the start. And so I think you start with that service level experience. And then you have to bring your partners with you on the journey. So as we build some of the marketing journey journeys, it's important to have product line of business, some of our operational partners, digital partners, depending on what it is, what that experience is, as we build those up our journeys, then we've gotta have the right people at the table. 

And then it's test and learn. I think today, We have such an opportunity, especially with the technology that we have, the data that we have to be able to do, test and learn. I think that's so critical in marketing, even if it's the subject line or is it a channel? There's just a lot of opportunity there. 

I think the other piece is automation. So a big component of a lot of things we talked about with the CDP and even your CRM, like it's like acronym soup, but you've got all these different things, but they really help you with the automation. And I think that's where we've been talking a lot with our sales partners and our client-facing banking partners. We also have an opportunity to help them do what they do best. Let them go out, meet with clients, be face-to-face. That's the value. We have really great people and really great bankers who bring that advice and counsel to the clients real time, face-to-face. What we can be doing as marketers and as an organization, we can be supporting them through automation and doing some of those journeys that are triggered touches based on the data that we have. So it really all flows together. It's the whole totality of the experience.

From marketing, through the conversion, whatever the conversion of the client is, whatever line of business or product or channel they're in, into the loyalty and retention. We can stitch all of that together, utilizing the data and help make everybody's day jobs easier. So our bankers aren't over there copy and pasting things into tons of emails. They can just go do what they do really well. 

So I think if you look at it again, it goes back to the totality and the holistic map of what is it you want to achieve. There's a huge opportunity bringing all of that to the table.

Kailey Raymond: I think what's really interesting is this kind of trend. And maybe this has always been a trend, but I feel like it's come up a lot in the past five years, maybe is Chief Customer Officers, customers as being like the focal point to unify everybody within the organization around one single metric or something. So a lot of what you were just talking about is bringing teams together, bringing quantum quant and qual data together, making sure it's all speaking to each other. I guess this is a bit existential. So pre apologies for the, uh, existential crisis question in the middle of this, but how do you define marketing versus customer experience? Like what's that evolution been in your eyes? 

Erin Pryor: I think it's a great question. And I think that's something a lot of organizations ask. I would say struggle, but I don't think it's a struggle. Marketing has always had to have the client at the center of the table or, client top of mind, because as you're going out and trying to understand who the customer is, how do you drive new business? How are people thinking? How do you message everybody? I think you've always thought about what are the segments? What are the demographics? What are the behavioral, the quality and the quant that go together with that? I think now getting that broader end-to-end in bringing the organization around the same ideology maybe is the, I don't even know if that's the right word, but the same methodology, even, around client being at the center I think it couldn't be better. And I don't think that it has to be one or the other. I think they work together. So in our organization I have marketing and I have client experience. So we have a client experience team, who's also focused on some of the innovation. How do we get our end to end process? Not from necessarily. Business engineering or process engineering, but how are our processes, like I mentioned, those operational processes working together, so then you can make that client experience superlative with additional touches. But you gotta make sure, like I said, your baseline's good first. And that includes from before they're even touched by us at all, whether it's marketing all the way into retention.

So I, I think it's, I think it's critical that the company in totality thinks that way. We also set up an insights group that does a lot of the research. So from brand tracker all the way through segmentation, into client satisfaction, NPS, all of that works together. You can take any piece of data and tell a story, but most of the time it's multiple pieces of data that actually tell the true story. And so I think connecting with that macro qualitative with the labs and other things that our CX group does with more client facing a little bit, some of the micro, really gives you the totality of this story. And then with that, then you look at the quantitative and a lot of times the qualitative, the insights, are going to give you the leading indicator and the quantitative some, uh, most times becomes the lagging. So for instance, if you do have a major issue, you don't wanna wait until you're seeing outflow, or you're seeing something that's hitting you from a financial standpoint. You wanna get out front of that, if there's a problem so that you can kind of know, like, we're hearing these things and so we may need to do something to retain X, Y, Z, whatever that problem may be. So I think the insights and the customer experience, I think they're critical in today's realm of marketing and, and just business in general. I think in great companies really know their customers well.

Kailey Raymond: I think what you just said about your insights group and lagging and leading indicators as it relates to qualitative and quantitative data is super key to double click in on. And I'm actually, I'm curious to, to learn a little bit more about some of that. Is, are there any insights maybe that you've gained from one of these focus groups that you're gaining more qualitative data in that might have surprised you. Like, how did that feel when you might have realized some of these, this information that you have your leading indicator with the quantitative data, but the qualitative data might be saying something a little bit different. 

Erin Pryor: There’s two incidents. One is at First Horizon. One is not, we are currently wrapping up some research. There were some dissenting opinions, if you will, internally around a specific topic. And I, I went to the team and said, Hey, let's rather than sitting here and pontificating and taking small pieces from here and small pieces from here and, and everywhere else and trying to make assumptions, we can actually put together a statistically perspective on our point of view on what's going on. And so we are wrapping up the research. We did an internal survey around the bankers who were on the front lines around this particular topic. We did a client survey specific to this line of business clients that were impacted by this topic. And then with our business partners, looking at the quantitative pieces, have we seen certain flags that would go up around, whether it be accounts, or other variables there and that together is giving a perspective. And what is interesting is it wasn't really one or the other. It's a little bit in the middle. There's a bit of a gray area. And so all the opinions are right in their own way, but we're really getting to the heart of the matter. 

And again, it's internal too, because like I said, great brands are built internally. If your employees are unhappy or not delivering a great client experience face to face, doesn't matter how much you drive in how much you spend, what great products you have, it's just not gonna be the same. We're still wrapping up, but the early output I've seen is interesting. Cause it's gonna be in the middle and I think it's gonna surprise some of the groups we're working with. 

The other one was really at, when I was with my former employer, I came from USAA, and we did a lot of research around Gen Z and millennials, and I still find it, and I haven't seen anything recently as of late, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's the same was that group I assumed would just wanna interact digitally and they wouldn't wanna go into a branch, but a lot of times physical presence, brick and mortar is a factor when they were choosing an institution. And so I still am surprised. I don't know if that is still true today, but when I was looking at that research a couple of years ago, I was like, really?  I was just surprised. So I think you can always learn from the clients and, and learn from that research.

Kailey Raymond:  Listen to your customer. I mean, I think that's like a perfect example is I'm shocked. Call me shocked right now. I, I, would've never guessed that Gen Zers might be interested or hand raising in saying yes, I'd like a branch. I'm wondering if that has anything to do with hybrid and everybody being online so often right now that everybody's craving just like being in person again. That makes me think about segmentation a little bit. I'm wondering if you have any examples that you might be able to provide. I'm assuming you have quite different clientele from somebody that might be a little bit later in life to a gen Z, perhaps opening their first account. What would an example look like of a different segmentation and then what that client journey might look like at First Horizon was some of the, um, customer data that you're putting together.

Erin Pryor: I mentioned, I set up the insights group probably about eight months ago. They've been putting the research in, it takes a few months. Sometimes it's hard to be patient cause you really just wanna know, but you have to give the research, the wearin, and they've done a lot of work around segmentation and looking at how some of that breaks out by product or by line of business.

I think the best example that encompasses really a lot of what we talked about already, including the segmentation, would be onboarding practices. So, you get your account and then you come in and it's what happens after, right. Are you going to download the app? Are you going to set up your bill pay, direct deposit, all those things, right.And it's also, there's other things you can do too, if you're a small business or a commercial. 

So we have done a lot of work implementing the journeys for onboarding. That is an automated triggered approach utilizing the data within the CRM, but also you can segment that journey depending on, is it a private client? Is it a small business? So being able to break those out.

I think the next step for us is really what you were saying earlier. Is there an opportunity to message differently based on demographic or based on whether it's gen Z and millennial or whatever. I think really where we have opportunity, and I'm excited to continue to lean in here as we get better, like we have to learn every day, right? 

We're still learning every day and testing into things, but banking is also really about advice. It's people's money. It's a serious topic. You don't wanna mess around with your money. And again, when I laugh about people saying I never would've worked in banking. I also find it incredibly rewarding because you have an opportunity to really be a part of people's lives in some meaningful way and impactful way.

So whether they're saving for child to go to college, maybe they wanna buy a car or a home, or they're starting a business, or they're looking to grow their business in some way, there's a lot of opportunity for us to segment based on life stage and also I think some of that behavioral data that we can tell. And like I mentioned, we've gotten those three or four onboarding journeys, a couple of them are off and running. A couple of them are still in build, but I think as we continue to learn into them and take the insights and get that data aligned so that we really understand and, and have a better understanding of where they are. I think we have a huge opportunity to really be impactful with our communication and be relevant to where the client feels like we are there to support. Not just their banker is a hundred percent there to support all the time, but then how do we help that banker and also help that client? I think there's a huge opportunity and we're still realizing it.

Kailey Raymond: As somebody who used to run a customer marketing team, which for some reason also had customer education under it. Don't ask me why, but exactly that focusing on onboarding and making sure that every single person and, definitely like persona base at the very least, is getting unique onboarding materials, cuz everybody's needs are gonna be different. I love that example and onboarding is so critical to making sure that people are staying with you and happy with you those first 90 days. Insanely impactful for actually retaining customers in the, in the long run in SaaS. I'm sure in banking, you have stats around that as well. I'm also curious here a little bit about segmentation and kind of where you're going in the future.

I'm wondering if there's anything that you're trying to answer with predictive analytics. There's tons of data, obviously that you're gathering. And I'm sure that there's things that you're trying to look into with the, you know, crystal ball for the future. Are you thinking about predictive analytics at First Horizon right now? And, and if so, what are some of those questions you're trying to answer?

Erin Pryor: I love how all of this is interconnected. And so it goes back to again, if you're looking at the ways that your customers or even prospects are interacting with you and what they're interacting with when it comes to content and really stitching that together, that is predictive. 

So if you've gone to the mortgage page, I'm just using this as an example again, cause we were talking about a mortgage earlier. If you've gone to the mortgage page and maybe you've gotten an email that you interacted with certain content and in some of our other channels, if it's social or maybe you've called in whatever it is, we obviously can tell that you're interested in a mortgage. It's also looking at how maybe somebody's looking to refi. And so have they done some of their spending habits or have they done certain things that we know like, oh, they're really focused on this. And it's not just around mortgage, you can do that in really all of the lines of business and product we're working through that.

Now we've got a few of the early components off the ground, and again,we will continue to evolve as we continue to evolve the work in the customer data platform and the CRM. Because again, it goes back to that's really where it all lives.

Kailey Raymond:  I'm curious also it can be about predictive analytics or anything else, but is there a company that you look to and you think to yourself, they're doing it.

Erin Pryor: There's a couple that come to mind. There's so many great experiences. I think today, like you mentioned earlier with the pandemic, it's that whole online, offline, you know, experience, it's that whole thing about how do people make you feel? How does the company make you feel when you interact with them? I recently had a great experience with Away. So, I met their founder a long time ago. It's been years. I did  a course at Wharton and she was a graduate and she was one of the speakers and I, and the company was relatively new and I was like, oh, I need one of those suitcases. Like, I need that battery. So I've had their suitcases forever, but recently I bought a new one and I was traveling and it somehow got away. It crashed over in the handle, like totally bent and you couldn't get it down and they had to break it off. So like, I could actually get on the plane. And I was like, beside myself, I was like, It's great. I just bought this, you know, nice suitcase and it's totally broken. And Away didn't even ask. They were like, oh, we just appreciate your loyalty to our company. And they sent me a brand new suitcase. I told them I was like, it shouldn't have been, but I had to do this. And they were like, it's totally fine. Send it back. And you know what? I will buy another away suitcase 100%. It was just that experience.

And I also think they do a really great job online. I think they're one of the companies you see them, Warby Parker. There's a couple of other ones that, I think they started as solely digital brands, but they now have some brick and mortar because people do like to interact, I think, with the product and see it.

So they've chosen some good markets. So I think they do it well, and I would definitely buy another suitcase. And this is not, I am not endorsed by . I'm not, I'm not being paid by Away. Just let me be clear here.

Kailey Raymond:  Erin, what's your Away code? I feel like you're, maybe you're trying to get. Some, uh, referral money right now, you know, , I also use a way and I've had the exact same experience and that's the reason why I bought multiple suitcases from them.

And I think that's right. One of the things that I, I love that you touched on too, is that yes. All of these, kind of like, digital innovators and disruptors have started online, DTC. And now they're transitioning to small store concepts and they're really listening to their customer data in terms of where the people live and the way the design of the stores and how they wanna interact and making sure that the checkout experience is optimized in all of these different things so that they are now opening up their channels away from just solely digital, into physical. And it's interesting. I feel like they're probably learning a lot from banks, retailers, et cetera. Who've been doing this forever too. So people are learning from each other at this point, which is interesting. 

I'm curious if you have any advice that you might give yourself to a younger self, a younger Erin who's entering the financial services industry. What would it be? 

Erin Pryor: It's funny, cuz I was thinking about this recently. You have these moments and you're like, oh, how did I get here? You know, in a good way. Like I love what I do. Uh, I feel so lucky and blessed to do it every day. So grateful, I’ve got a fantastic team and a lot of great support. I think it's, be patient. Like continue to lean in. Learn as much as you can. Listen. One of the things that I really love today, I have my team, my direct leadership team, in for an onsite and we're gonna get together. I don't wanna be the smartest person in the room. I'm not the smartest person in the room. It's surrounding yourself with fantastic people and really smart people who push you and the company and the team forward collectively. And so I think it would be the, my advice would be listen and learn and surround yourself with amazing people.

And I feel like luckily I've done most of that, but I think it, the really critical piece is be patient. I think in today's day and age, we all wanna now. I mean, we're, we live in the age of social media and direct consumption and all the things, and sometimes it's play the long game and don't worry so much about the short game.

Kailey Raymond: Patience is a virtue, the age old saying rings true. And I appreciate that and saying that evening out your team and making sure that all the perspectives are there. And I'll add this, including the customer, I think that's a really critical one that we've talked about all day is critical to success in really any industry. So Erin, thanks so much for your insights today. I really appreciate you being here. 

Erin Pryor: Thank you for having me. This was so much fun.